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Saturday Night Session With William Paul Young

paulyoung_fnl1I now know how Cinderella must have felt coming home from the ball. Accelerated, wishing it didn’t have to end, yet knowing that when the clock strikes twelve it must end. In other words, it was an incredible evening that I won’t forget.

William Paul Young, or Paul Young, as he is known to his family and his friends, is as good a speaker as he is a writer. He is humble, kind,funny, wanting no glory or accolades for a book that was originally meant for his children’s eyes only, with no idea that the it would instead be read by eyes all over the world.

Who knew that a book written in single space and printed at Office Depot because doing both was cheaper, would be used by God to bring so many to Christ. But it has, and William Paul Young has the emails and letters from so many who came to believe in Christ after reading this book. Many of them agnostics and atheists from around the world.

To tell you every part of this evening would take up enough space to write a book myself, so instead of giving every single word he said, I invite you to listen for yourself over at the Emmanuel website, going to the archives, or listen tomorrow morning at 11 am Central time as Paul Young speaks in the morning session. It will be worth the time spent whether fan or critic of his book The Shack. I doubt you will come away with the same criticism for the book, most of which is unfounded as I hope to show later on, but even if that doesn’t change, it is worth the listen. In fairness if nothing else.

Let me begin by telling my impression of what William Paul Young is not.

*He is not a Universalist. I know, I know what has been written about him, but listen to him speak in detail. He is not a Universalist.

*He is not a heretic. His love for Christ, his theology, his love for his brothers and sisters in Christ is incredible. In fact except for a handful of people through out my lifetime of fifty three years, I don’t think I’ve seen as much love and grace coming from a Christian.

*His portrayal of the Trinity is not unbiblical, in fact he understands the Trinity quite well, and the names given fit perfectly when you understand why he chose the names he did, portrayed them as he did. If you have ever been deeply wounded where something in you dies, you will understand perfectly why he wrote it as he did. I’ve been there, I understood.

I arrived at 6:20 hoping to get a good seat and had the privilege to see Paul and Mary Burleson along with other members of the family. It was great to talk to them, both are a joy to be around. They look good too. :)

The evening began before 7:00, as Wade announced that Mr. Young would be signing books until the service began at 7:00. The line was long as I went to the back of it, anxiously waiting to have the copy of my daughter’s book signed. She was called to work and could not come with me.

I wondered if I would make it to the front before 7:00, but it was not to be. Wade counted off assigning numbers to the next thirty people, promising that there would be another signing after the service and we could be first in line. No one seemed to mind because Paul Young was giving time to each individual, ending each book sign with a hug. Incredibly generous.

The service began promptly on time, and as introductions were made, William Paul Young came to the stage met with a standing ovation, he then proceeded to turn around and clap upwards to the heavens. He was giving all the clapping, the standing ovation, to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

He then turned around and began by telling us he is not an author. “It’s true,” he said. “I’ve never had anything published before.” He then proceeded to tell the incredible story of how The Shack got to where it is now. I say incredible because it was. Only God could have orchestrated such a thing. The details can be heard by going to the Emmanuel church website and clicking on the archives. To write about it wouldn’t do it justice. I don’t want to leave anything out, which I would have to due to space. Only by hearing it will you get the full impact his story gives.

The Shack is eleven years of William Paul Young’s life. He is both Mackenzie Philips and Missy, the daughter who is killed by a serial killer.

The Shack is a portrayal of Mr. Young’s loss of innocence. The pain in the book goes deeper than death. In fact, Missy in the book represents something in Paul Young that died, and God taking him on a journey to healing.

Paul Young said during the course of the evening “Sometimes to heal somebody, He(God) has to tear something down.” This statement not only furthered in bringing the book to my understanding, but I also couldn’t help but think of other areas that this is true.

At question and answer time, someone asked Mr. Young how he chose the names for the Trinity in the book. Each name was carefully chosen for a specific reason. Such care was used in the deliberate choice of names, that to not see God’s hand in this book was near impossible. Especially my having read it twice.

Sarayu(name for the Holy Spirit in the book): Paul Young was searching for just the right name, and not finding any in English that best described the Holy Spirit, he searched elsewhere in other languages. After finding none that suited there, he happened to be speaking to a friend who was from India. He then asked his friend for a long list of words. After receiving the list and looking through it, he came upon the word sarayu, meaning wind.

Not wanting just any word meaning wind, he asked his friend what kind of wind this word was. She told him that this particular word meant a common wind that takes you by surprise. Thus the name for the Holy Spirit who appeared to Mac in the shack was born.

Sophia(the personification of God’s wisdom according to the book(pg. 171): This name comes from Proverbs 8 and means wisdom. There is also a specific reason that Sophia is very beautiful.

Papa(God in the book): “It took me (I forget how many) years to erase my father’s face from the face of God.” Papa is chosen to show the intimacy we have in God. The Bible says so much so that we can call him Abba, which means daddy, or in this case Papa.

William Paul Young has an incredible story to tell and he is telling it. The message of The Shack is the same message that Imonk wrote of in his post today along with the post by Trevin Wax. It is a story of God’s grace, love, care, binding the wound of those who are in a pain so deep that the person God created them to be dies due to horrendous tragedies. It’s a story worth reading, it’s a story worth passing on. And I think it will be for a long, long time.

Categories: church
  1. April 5, 2009 at 8:03 am | #1

    Thanks for sharing, Debbie. I’ll head over to listen to the entire thing later on this afternoon. I wish that I could have been there. The book really touched my life and connected with the scars that I carry.

  2. April 5, 2009 at 12:50 pm | #2

    Dave: I appreciate your comment and one of the reasons is you actually read the book and get it. I bet you also got the Narnia Chronicles which I read and saw the movie.

    The book touched my life as well. It was things I knew and forgot yet didn’t. I know that does not make sense, but I will elaborate further in future posts. I just returned from the morning service, and it was even more amazing. I hope many caught it on live, but if not it will be in archive as well if it isn’t already. We are fast. :) Thank you Dave, I admittedly tell you it is a true honor to have you comment here today.

  3. Thy Peace
    April 5, 2009 at 2:51 pm | #3

    I just got the book. I only read only the preface so far. (I am slow sometimes). I truly enjoyed his talk on Sunday morning. I wish he had spoken 3 times longer. If anyone video taped the discussion on Saturday evening, can they post it either on YouTube or Emmanuel Web Site? I would love to listen to the discussion. An audio mp3 would also be great. Thanks.

  4. April 5, 2009 at 3:41 pm | #4

    I am pretty sure it was video taped at church and if it is not on our church website soon will be Thy Peace. If not let me know and I will go into further detail, but I thought I saw the video cameras running.

  5. April 5, 2009 at 4:15 pm | #5

    I too was powerfully impacted by his sharing at a conference I attended back in Sept/08. Everything you write above, is also what I went away feeling after the conference. Of course, him being an MK/TCK like myself explained so many things. On Facebook I have been reconnecting with many MKs from those early years who went through many similar difficulties like Paul while on the field. I am encouraging these old classmates to read “The Shack” and many have been greatly ministered to by the book. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

  6. April 5, 2009 at 9:01 pm | #6

    Debbie,

    I believe a profound work was begun in some and furthered in others like myself because of what your fellowship was willing to host this weekend. It is a work of renewing and revival and healing that goes beyond any theological discussion or parsing of words or ideas. It is a profound time. Your post has spoken well to it. I added my thoughts about it on my blog. You are my sister and I am so grateful for that.

  7. April 5, 2009 at 10:07 pm | #7

    Guy: I’m so glad that you were able to hear him too and that I portrayed him accurately.

    Thank you Paul, I’m glad too. :) I also agree with the rest of your comment. Tonight’s service was so full of God moving that I my emotions right now are raw and I have to spend time contemplating tonight so I haven’t gotten a post up because frankly I can’t put it into words.

    I read your post and and hope that everyone reads it. I was going to link to it, but now you made it easy, people just have to click on your name. As with Thy Peace, David, and Guy, I am honored and so glad you commented.

  8. Robert I Masters
    April 6, 2009 at 11:29 am | #8

    Hi Debbie,
    In speaking of the shack you make many absolute statements of fact that simply are not corroborated! In fact many Godly men have written reams to show you theologically why your facts are wrong concerning the Theology of Shack. You give no rebuttal to those men.

    I will try to illustrate a few from this post.
    1) *He is not a Universalist. I know, I know what has been written about him, but listen to him speak in detail. He is not a Universalist.
    Do you understand the difference between Universalism and Universal Reconciliation?
    Most people are arguing that he holds to universal Reconciliation!
    http://sheepfodder.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/the-shack-and-universal-reconciliation/
    2).*He is not a heretic. His love for Christ, his theology, his love for his brothers and sisters in Christ is incredible. In fact except for a handful of people through out my lifetime of fifty three years, I don’t think I’ve seen as much love and grace coming from a Christian.
    Secondly, Young consequently misunderstands God. I am compelled to ask whether Young has succumbed to Satan’s second ploy to doubt God’s righteousness and justice. On p.120 “Papa” (God the Father) tells Mack: “I am not who you think I am, Mackenzie. I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring you from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.” These words echoes Satan’s You shall not surely die! If God is denied His authority to issue commands and to punish disobedience, then He appears to be a God other than the One revealed in Scripture. To say that God does not punish but only cures sin, is to misrepresent God’s righteous response to sin and to misunderstand the utter sinfulness of sin (Romans 7:13). Young’s god is The Great Therapist, not The Judge of all the earth who does right (Genesis 18:25). To misrepresent God is to violate the second commandment. I have a serious concern that the God presented in The Shack is a false image made by Young. Young’s “Papa” is not about law or punishment. He is all about love and relationship. But Young fails to make it clear that the perpetually promoted “relationship” that “Papa” seeks with men is a reconciliation that has a forensic foundation. For fallen sinners to have “relationship” with God, God must resolve our legal condemnation and guilt. Young suggests that we can “return to relationship” with God but shows little concern for our sin, God’s violated law, or our exposure to His righteous wrath. Young glosses over these legal concerns of God’s courtroom and thus builds his “shack” on yet another faulty foundation.
    above from this link…..
    http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/the-faulty-foundations-of-the-shack-part-2/
    3).His portrayal of the Trinity is not unbiblical, in fact he understands the Trinity quite well, and the names given fit perfectly when you understand why he chose the names he did, portrayed them as he did. If you have ever been deeply wounded where something in you dies, you will understand perfectly why he wrote it as he did. I’ve been there, I understood.
    First, Young’s anti-authority antinomianism conditions his view of the Godhead. “Papa” describes the inter-Trinitarian relationships on p.122: “Mackenzie, we have no concept of final authority among us, only unity. We are in a circle of relationship… What you’re seeing here is relationship without any overlay of power. We don’t need power over the other because we are always looking out for the best. Hierarchy would make no sense among us. Actually, this is your problem, not ours.” “Jesus” speaks to Mack about the inter-Trinitarian relationships on p.145,146: “We are indeed submitted to one another and have always been so and always will be. Papa is as much submitted to me as I to him, or Sarayu to me, or Papa to her. Submission is not about authority and it is not obedience; it is all about relationships of love and respect. In fact, we are submitted to you in the same way.” “Why would the God of the universe want to be submitted to me?” asks Mack. “Jesus” answers: “Because we want you to join us in our circle of relationship.” But anyone who has read only the Gospel of John knows that Jesus accomplished our redemption by His perfect obedience to the will of the Father. Paul wants us to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ (1 Cor 11:3). Young, however, views headship, a hierarchical position of authority, as intrinsically bad. Therefore such a bad thing cannot characterize the relationships among the Persons of the Trinity. Here Young confuses the ontological equality of shared deity by the Persons of the Godhead with their hierarchical relationships and functions in the economy of salvation. As equally divine, God the Father loves us and planned our redemption, God the Son accomplished our redemption, and God the Spirit applies the Father’s love and Christ’s accomplished redemption to us. When God saves a sinner, the Persons of the Godhead act hierarchically: the Son submitting to the will of the Father and the Spirit to the joint will of the Father and the resurrected Son. Young confuses God’s Being with God’s acting. This is a serious error on Young’s part.
    from this link…..
    .http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-faulty-foundations-of-the-shack-part-3/

    lastly on a personal note…..I grew up amongst the Dani tribe as did Paul Young! And no I was not abused or molested by them.
    http://www.papuatrekking.com/Dani_Lani_tribe_Baliem_valley.html
    I have talked to several leaders who were pioneer missionaries and helped translate the Bible into Dani or least the New Testament. They all say that many of the concepts Paul Young uses come from Dani pre-christian life. So why should we bring Paganism into the church. They now follow Christ….many of them. Why return to their old ways which was before they heard the Gospel of the one and only living God….
    Please , Please burn this idol down…it leads to Hell.

    In Christ Alone
    Robert I Masters

  9. April 6, 2009 at 11:53 am | #9

    Robert: I know scripture well. I am theologically sound. I disagree with you, but appreciate your concern. I hope you appreciate my deep concern for you as well. I also invite you to listen to Paul Young speak on the Emmanuel Baptist website, if nothing else out of fairness, to see if the things you have read and heard are true. In fact I hope you listen to other sermons available there. But mostly I hope that in your search to discredit William Paul Young or others through the reading of scripture, that you discover the great love that God has for you and the relationship that is available to you with the Three in One. I am not speaking of salvation, which I have no reason not to believe you have, but a living breathing, loving, relationship with the God of the Universe.

  10. Robert I Masters
    April 6, 2009 at 12:32 pm | #10

    Okay debbie go worship your Idol!
    You dont seem to want to discus the facts and you conclude with a judgemental statement concerning my walk with Christ. Honestly the concern is for the truth.
    Must I read listen and read him 1001 times to discern what he(Paul Young) is saying?
    In fairness to him he has not really changed his message at all. I get it it ! It just contradicts the Word of God.

    Robert I Masters

  11. April 6, 2009 at 5:12 pm | #11

    Robert: Thankfully Paul Young has not really changed his message at all.

    What do you think of CS Lewis and The Chronicle of Narnia which is also an analogy?

  12. April 6, 2009 at 9:14 pm | #12

    Robert: I am going to say this as kindly as I know how, but I must admit that there is some anger due to your bashing.

    It is those that speak as you do, don’t want to hear what others have to say, and brandish your sword around that are wounding and killing people’s inner spirit. You may not mean to, and for some it is because they too are wounded, but for some they are just Christians and angry about it. Onward Christian soldiers and I’m In The Lord’s Army are there life songs. But it does more damage to people(Not me, God not only healed my wounds, but gave me a inner strength that sometimes surprised me) that takes years to get over. It’s those kind of people that God comes to heal and bind their wounds.

    It’s this type of religion that isn’t anything from God Robert. It’s from tradition, religion, hearsay. And it’s your type of speaking, thinking, treatment of people that I hope God takes away from all Southern Baptists churches.

    Give me 100 people who are like Paul Young, than one who brandishes the sword like you are doing now. But I have grown to care about you Robert, and I don’t condone those who swing back at you either.

    I really hope that you watch the videos Robert, but I can’t force you and would not if I could. My prayer for you is the statement I made to you earlier. Believe me, there is nothing like it. And while you are wanting to be so Biblical, which I believe you sincerely do,read 1 Corinthians 13 as well as the passage I have given at the beginning of the post. Galatians and Romans as well. You need to realize who you are in Christ Robert. By the reading of your comments, you don’t. Your putting people in chains and bondage that need to know who they are in Christ as well.

    Thank you for commenting Robert. But it isn’t me who isn’t willing to discuss. I just won’t change my mind.

  13. April 6, 2009 at 11:16 pm | #13

    ah yes, Robert “the hOLY sPIRIT” Masters. Gotta love him…

  14. Robert I Masters
    April 7, 2009 at 1:57 pm | #14

    Debbie,
    Question for you…Do you think Paul Young should or would ever be invited to T4G.

    http://t4g.org/

    Robert I Masters

  15. April 7, 2009 at 4:06 pm | #15

    *He is not a Universalist.

    Actually, he said he doesn’t know if he’s a universalist in a radio interview. He was asked that question at least twice (“So is everyone going to heaven?” or some variation on a theme). Unless he’s willing to say “No” when answering that question no one can claim he’s not a universalist. Someone who is not a universalist would say “No, everyone is not going to heaven. Some people will be in hell forever”. Again, I listened to the radio interview.

    *He is not a heretic.

    He deny’s the penal substitutionary death of Jesus Christ. That is a heretical belief. That, therefore, makes him a heretic. Or should that be an heretic? I can never remember the rule on that. Anywhoo….

    *His portrayal of the Trinity is not unbiblical,

    1-He portrays God as female.
    2-He claims that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit were incarnated in the flesh in Jesus.
    3-He deny’s the proper biblical doctrine of the submission of the Son to the Father.
    Sounds pretty unbiblical to me.

    Not to worry, though. The Savior of the SBC, Wade, will likely succeed with the Mainstream Resurrgence [(c) 2008 Joe Blackmon] and the BFM can be rewritten to reflect Mainstream theology—”It’s all good”.

  16. April 7, 2009 at 6:29 pm | #16

    Robert: I would love for Paul Young to be there. :)

    Joe: I would disagree with your post. Frankly God is not female or male. He is Spirit. Non-gender. If you were to read the whole book,the choices for each would make sense. Allegories are my favorite type of books.

    Have you actually read the book for yourself? Have you listened to the messages online?

    I think that Paul Young has been taken woefully out of context, when you do that, you can make it say anything you want.

    Because of your last line I almost deleted your comment, but I had my reasons. Also I do believe you should be free to disagree with me, but I would appreciate discussion, I am more than willing to discuss and not this kind of rhetoric which is simply done to make me or others look like a fool, which I assure you I am not. The others are not. This type of comment shows nothing but anger. Anger that needs to leave the SBC.

    I want you to comment here Joe, just like I want Robert to comment, but I would like to talk about this as a Christian sister talking with her Christian brothers. Not the world, I can get that anywhere.

  17. Robert I Masters
    April 7, 2009 at 9:56 pm | #17

    Debbie
    Well Debbie…He never will be invited because he is not preaching the Gospel.

    Is everyone else wrong and you are right theologically!
    Doesnt make sense Debbie. Iam speaking here of those in SBC cirles. AL Mohler, Chuck Colsen et al.

    Another question for you Debbie….why were Wayne Jacobson and Brad Cumming(they helped with Windblown media) asked to leave Calvary Chapel?

    Robert I Masters

  18. April 8, 2009 at 12:00 am | #18

    Robert: I see you keep quoting others. Have you ever sat down and just studied the scriptures for yourself? I am seriously asking.

    I don’t know anything about Calvary Chapel nor the men you are speaking of so I can’t comment to it.

  19. April 8, 2009 at 6:58 am | #19

    Actually, Debs, it’s the Mainstreamers who need to be leaving. Further, you’ll notice that my last line acknowledges that the Mainstreamers are going to be the ones who end up regaining control of the SBC which is just jake with me. After all, II Thess 2:3 is still in the Bible and all. You see, once the SBC starts its shift to the left I know I’m not hanging around to fight for it. If I don’t agree with what an organization stands for, I leave it. I have integrity and couldn’t hang around for years trying to win back the convention.

    No, I haven’t read the book. It’s not necessary for me to go into a bathroom with a toilet that is stopped up, cannot be flushed, but has been used to know that room is going to stink. I have heard the man himself interviewed.

    Feel free to delete the comment.

  20. April 8, 2009 at 7:42 am | #20

    Joe: A man or woman who actually walks the walk is rare to find. As I have read others say, and because I am finding this weekend hard to put into words, Paul Young walks the walk. You know that he wouldn’t even argue with you on this? Not because he couldn’t but in his words “I won’t malign my Christian brothers and sisters ever.” And he is talking about you and others who are railing venom against him.

    He won’t swing back. He won’t hurt you. He won’t because he loves you too much and he hasn’t even met you. As I said God did something Sunday night, and although I’m still trying to process it and put it into words, I don’t think it’s something you are going to be able to stop. But, God is doing something in our church, our town, in surrounding towns, and other states here, and it began this past weekend. And it was and is incredible. People were there this weekend from California, Kansas, other places across the United States. We also have the messages archived(at least 2 of them). I saw what I saw, I heard what I heard. People being inwardly healed from damage either caused by others or themselves or both. I know what the healing is like because it happened to me in a process in the same church. Hearing the same words these people heard.

    It wasn’t because he was a famous author, but because he was a man with a powerful message and he not only spoke that message, his life is that message.

    Think about it Joe, I’m speechless when it comes to talking about it. This is me here. :)

  21. Robert I Masters
    April 8, 2009 at 9:03 am | #21

    Yes, Debbie I have many times.
    I suspect my understanding of the position of the Bible in relation to the H.S is different then yours….but I may be wrong!
    I dont think God speaks outside His revealed Word.

    Robert Masters

  22. April 8, 2009 at 12:10 pm | #22

    Well Debbie, “Ah’ve done seen th’ lah-eet”. I guess that stuff in Galatians where Paul opposes Peter to his face regarding his false doctrine is just one of those things that was only for that time and culture like 1 Timothy 2:11-12. I mean, the really loving, “christian” thing to do is to accept the fact that we shouldn’t divide over something as silly and irrelevant as doctrine and accept the fact that he just sees things different than we do. I mean, so what if he says Christ wasn’t punished on the cross by the Father for sin. It’s not like that violates any scripture for him to suggest that, right. And it’s not like modalism is a heresy (i.e. God was on the cross. God, the Holy Spirit, and the Son were manifested in the flesh as Jesus). I’ve just been too uptight about all this bible stuff. But WPY and his unwillingness to react to mean-spirited people who poke holes the size of the Lincoln Tunnel in his theology proves him to be in the right. I’ll just need to clip that verse out that says something about contending for the faith.

  23. April 9, 2009 at 2:37 am | #23

    Robert: I doubt you and I would be that different. And you would be surprised that Paul Young’s isn’t either.

    Read Galatians again Joe.

    In CS Lewis’ The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, Absalon is a lion who is the true ruler of Narnia, sacrifices himself to spare Edwund, but then raises from the dead just in time to help in the fight against the White witch.

    According to CS Lewis, a picture of Christ. Then we have the Screwtape Letters, a letter from Satan, I could go on and on about those who have written great allegories. Pilgrim’s Progress, one of the most famous allegories about a Christian who travels with a literal burden on his back, but it’s an allegory for something else he is carrying. Look at the characters of those he meets along the way.

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